BWI part2 E
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By P (CCAL30) (1370), Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:59:11 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Hi Tom, You should find some land in a PG area. I think that, right now, the land you we are all on is M (mature).
By Luke Martin (1845), Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:27:30 PST
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I mentioned this to a few of you earlier. I had my first solicitation on SL the other night. Here's the skinny on the Mature side of things in the Better World.
I was stopped at this sign, thanks to my slow DSL connection, for quite a while, waiting for it to materialize. My wife is a La Leche League member, so I'm used to seeing nursing mothers all over the place, so when I eventually realized that I was standing there gawking at a topless woman, I just had to laugh. Been there, done that! That's when a person spoke from next to me, inviting me to some club where I could see more. Realized that I was in the midst of a whole gauntlet of porno ads and that the club probably wasn't La Leche, so I promptly teleported away.
It was definitely a funny experience, but made me realize that there is a whole other world going on inside SL, stuck right around Maslow's Survival Needs. Not that that's bad. But not something that appeals to me (spotless soul that I am).
I also mentioned to one member that I was leaving SL. No, it's not the sex that has scared me off! It's the time. I honestly think that it's fascinating and see it has great possibilities for building relationships and having good ol' fun. But, my real life responsibilities are kind of all consuming at present.
Nonetheless, maybe I'll pay the first couple of months and just peek in once in a while for fun.
By Therese Fitzpatrick (117), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:11:06 PST Edited: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:24:52 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Could someone, maybe via PM, explain to me how I would find you o.net people in SL? Before I give up, I'd like to at least see just one of you in there. I have tried to find and join the Better World group. . . I to go 'find group' but I don't see it listed. Where do I look?
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:03:08 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Don't give up! Do a find for people... even if we are offline, you can click on the "profile" button and send them an Instant Message. Then when he/she gets online, they can reply back to you. I will look you up now and show you how this works.
By Tom Munnecke (1530), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:32:52 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Therese, i doubt that you'll find many folks in Second Life at 1 AM PST... seems 10-12 PM is prime time for us West Coasters. Maybe you'd like to join John Lester's meeting today: "We'll be having a "Second Life VIrtual Roundtable" meeting on Saturday, February 12, at 6:00pm Eastern Time. I volunteered to host it and have it on the "Live2Give" island, since it's a large private area with plenty of space for lots of people to meet. Nothing formal, just a chance to chat with other people at the conference who are interested in the future of online social networks." I'll be online, you can find me as tortoise calliope, or you can find your way to Live2Give and wander around there. I can also introduce you to Eliza, the Giant Pink Flamingo, who can utter phrases so profound that nobody can understand them.
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:50:24 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Thanks Tom, Lilone just told me about this meeting too. I will try to make it but it might not happen! Please post the nuggets you glean from the meeting. Peace, P
By Darlene Charneco (CCAL30) (594), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:09:01 PST Edited: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:10:16 PST Comment feedback score: 0 Hey guys.:) So why don't we all pitch in a bit and get a medium plot of land in a PG area that we can develop ideas on...in the hopes that eventually we can get an island? I have a tiny 512 lot in Luo that I have just been sitting on in order to sell it for something larger. I'd say we can play there..but really all the plots around me are owned by large lard owners who have a quiet marina type theme that they want to maintain and I don't want to cause any ripples. But I can sell it and put my linden towards a getting a larger group-owned PG 'Better World incubator' plot with you all..? I think even to start it would be good to have a specific dedicated space/base. thoughts?
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:40:31 PST
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Happy to contribute... I would get a big plot... space fills up fast... harder to find but maybe not in PG areas... I am so unfamiliar with the real estate market in SL...
Ping me when you find something. If I come across any opportunities, I will ping you.
By Tom Munnecke (1530), Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:30:15 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Well, I think we should just go for an island now, so that we have complete control over it, its topography, the sun and weather, and the like. build it and they will come. We can set our own norms and atmosphere, and perhaps could place it near Live2Give so we could have a bridge or ferry service between them, setting up the beginning of an archipelgo of islands along various better world themes.
By Darlene Charneco (CCAL30) (594), Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:33:11 PST Edited: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:29:34 PST Comment feedback score: 0 Hi Pam & Tom, Well, just thinking...the land tier fees for an island are pretty steep PER month...so why don't we try to organize the specific ideas we'd like to start out with first because that might take some time. And to get the right people to work on it? I realized that everyone is given a 512 plot to start with now (back when i joined I had to request it lottery-form from 'Land for the Landless').And that amount is 'fee-free'. So if we all put our 512s next to one another and granted group access we wouldn't be paying Any tier fee for a larger bit of land. Just thinking out loud. On the other hand the island might bring the right people on board. ? Love the archipelago idea...*sigh*..can't wait for the Island of Religious Harmony to sprout up...I see that as very educational...with temples and churches and info on all world religions.. And yes yes to Connecting Islands,hehe. See my mixed-media artwork 'Connecting Islands' below..;)
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:45:17 PST
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I know we are bottom up on Better World Island, but I am happy to cover the rent for the island and folks can pay as they see fit.
We can evolve a community payment system if it is needed later. Folks can set up business, etc....
Sound ok??
By c•a•r•l•a (white) (1330), Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:50:54 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) ok with me, and i haven't even gotten there yet.. i will though...
By Therese Fitzpatrick (117), Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:19:19 PST Edited: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:53:59 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Tom, I don't expect to find Tortoise of Jamie Neutra in SL at 1:30 A.M. I go in there at weird hours just to practice. I thought I should be able to find Better World Island irregardless of who is in SL at any particular moment? I thought I'd wait until I could walk and talk before I tried to meet the flamingo. Pam, thanks for your offer of help. I have stopped learning skills until my faster dsl connect gets turned on (a couple more days) but I am having a great time with my new wardrobe. I love dressing Panther. As far as money for stuff, I just saw that I have $750 SL dollars. I am happy to 'donate' SL dollars to Better World efforts but I don't have First Life dollars to contribute just now.
By Darlene Charneco (CCAL30) (594), Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:38:09 PST Comment feedback score: 0 Wow Pam, eek!:)I will gladly give all my Linden towards rent..or just gradually allocate it for Better World Projects, whichever you think is best. We might need to pay some builders in Linden and like I said before, so many amazing things have already been built so it'd be a matter of buying the objects for modification and use on the island... I'm really all for this.Let me know how best to contribute.!
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:26:05 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) I think we have to wait for our fearless leader in SL, Kitto, to help us get the island in the first place... Tom, want to send him a gentle nudge. Turns out I know the guy too, so I will remind him about it.
By Joshua Blaine (13), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:47:19 PST
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I've been browsing through this discussion and the Second Life website, and I must say that it scares me a bit. It's eerily similar to the concept of the Matrix, but instead of machines creating it to appease the masses, we're creating it to appease ourselves.
why don't we try to make THIS world a 'Better World' before we start making other worlds better....? Does anyone else see this as some strange delusion, or distraction, from a world that really does need lots of help, right now? anyone?
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:16:44 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Hi Joshua, You know, it is a really valid point. But I spend my days tracking the violence in Sudan and the horrors of child soldiers and child prostitution, and many of us are working, in all the ways we can, to raise humanity and stop these atrocities and care for one another better. But I am so compelled with the concept of Second Life. I think there are areas where we can safely explore human nature (as SL is simply real life in a different skin) and work on things that cannot easily be done in real life. WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS SPECIFICALLY? I am not sure, but they are there... And I find the potential for SL to help chronically ill/handicapped people to be so overwhelmingly infinite that it takes my breadth away. It will never replace the care and touch and eye to eye contact between people but it can augment understanding and help free people in ways we are still dreaming of. And finally, I need to escape sometimes. And that is a reasonable need. Second Life is stretching my brain and I think that can only be good in helping to solve real life problems. I am loving this new experiment! THere is a Better World group here on omidyar.net that is working on real world issues. I think folks are just using SL as a small part of what they are really doing. Networked Theory for a Better World: http://www.omidyar.net/group/netchange/ (where this discussion is-doh, sorry, I'm slow) Better World Media: http://www.omidyar.net/group/media/ Oh gosh, this whole site is about real world stuff. I think there is room for both. peace, P
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:20:26 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Forgive me as the above post is not all that well written... but I hope my points come across... will work on being more articulate. OK, that all said, Pierre and I have created a Second World group to discuss this issue of SL and its possibilities. We need a few more sponsors too: http://www.omidyar.net/group/secondlife/
By Luke Martin (1845), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:32:55 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Pam et al, Do you believe in an afterlife? If you do, I wonder how you think it will be similar to or different than Second Life? Here on O/net, and even more on SL, we no longer have bodies to speak of. We are connecting on a mental or even spiritual level. How is the great beyond any different than what goes on in cyberspace?
By Anne Marie Bellavance (2207), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:22:00 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Joshua Blaine said: why don't we try to make THIS world a 'Better World' before we start making other worlds better....? by focusing on how Second Life can assist the ill and physically disabled, we are trying to make this world a better place. Please visit Second Life and take a tour of Live2Give and Brigadoon and Shockproof - i cannot begin to do justice explaining the uplift and unlimited possibilities Second Life has created for those who are physically challenged in the real world.
By Darlene Charneco (CCAL30) (594), Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:58:11 PST
Comment feedback score: 5 (* * * * *)
Hi Joshua, I can certainly understand your confusion, looking at this quickly as a 'game realm'. However, to ignore or dismiss what is happening here on a larger scale would be a mistake. I think we all are concerned with the concept of making real world changes through the cooperation and empowerment of the masses. The credo of omidyar.net is such:
We believe every individual has the power to make a difference. We exist for one single purpose: So that more and more people discover their own power to make good things happen.
So how do you reach the people who are not quite looking?
If you consider that Amazon.com is a portal of 'everyday activity', ...and that by simply putting a banner for the tsunami relief efforts on their high traffic site they have encouraged the masses to cooperatively and voluntarily contribute $15,745,701.06 (last I checked)towards very real goals, we have a good example of what can be done.
SecondLife.com is a realm where at this early time, around 20,000 users are registered and cooperatively building the open-ended experience. It is still in its infancy and I predict that over the next few years it will grow exponentially, with or without 'our' participation. This is because one must be aware of how it represents the larger inevitable transition of our web technology from text-based to more graphically immersive and interactive. We mustn't be distracted into thinking that because the technology has been most often used for escapism that that is it's only potential. It offers us yet another way to communicate with others and engage the minds of a huge next generation especially.
I believe that SecondLife offers us an opportunity to show in microcosm what the aggregate behaviors of a large group of people yield. If we can inspire positive change using tools within such a realm I do believe that the ripples in the 'outside world' will be very 'real'. I believe that each and every person would like to make a positive difference in the world and it is up to us to continually demonstrate how it is possible and to design more ways to make it less of a 'task' and more a enjoyable wonderful way of living.
The concept of creating a Better World Island on SecondLife is just a step toward this goal...inserting the concepts and hopes of collaborative change into the mix of a fast growing realm where interconnectivity and access are the literal norm. Empower and inspire them to know their potential there and they will take this further into 'real life' as well.
Also see info on Connectors and The Tipping Point. SecondLife is a very powerful growing 'hub'.
By P (CCAL30) (1370), Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:16:58 PST
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Wow. Thanks Darlene. That was an excellent comment.
By Tom Munnecke (1530), Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:19:04 PST
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Joshua Blaine said:
why don't we try to make THIS world a 'Better World' before we start making other worlds better....? Does anyone else see this as some strange delusion, or distraction, from a world that really does need lots of help, right now? anyone?
I agree with your basic sentiments, Joshua, but I don't see the situation as an either/or situation. I think we can do both. Here are some random thoughts:
I think that the Live2Give island already is making the "real" world a better place through improved second life world activities for Cerebal Palsy patients. The discovery of this thread alone is enough to make the whole idea worhwhile, but I suspect that there are many, many other ideas and applications out there.
Second Life gives us an entirely new medium for understanding better world activities. We can build simulations, do quests, understand and appreciate new ideas in this virtual world which may not be expressible in real world terms.
Akin to the way that the military trains with "war games", perhaps we can train with "Better World Games". Perhaps we can launch quests, simulate the use of our better world tools, refine our activities, or just get people interested in what positive things can come from positive interaction.
There is a personal transition that some folks have to go through - I call it "Outing Compassion" - in which someone who has had to be the tough, hardnosed, bottom-line kind of guy suddenly sees a more compassionate, generous world view. This might be more easily accomplished in a second-life setting, rather than being too explicit too soon in their personal transition.
There is a huge population of game players out there, for whom this is a "real" way of interacting. I admit that I am not of that culture, but I am trying to learn. If we could reach some portion of this population, we could find another avenue for the omidyar.net "More and more people"... theme to expand.
We are not going to know whether this idea works or not unless we try it. We simply need to do the experiment and see what emerges.
And finally, what's wrong with having a little fun? I've been moved to tears of laughter as well as tears of compassion on my time in Second Life. This is a very engaging and powerful medium. We might as well explore it and see what we can do with it.
By Therese Fitzpatrick (117), Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:27:48 PST
Edited: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:28:51 PST
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Joshua Blaine said:
I've been browsing through this discussion and the Second Life website, and I must say that it scares me a bit.
why don't we try to make THIS world a 'Better World' before we start making other worlds better....? Does anyone else see this as some strange delusion, or distraction, from a world that really does need lots of help, right now? anyone?
Are you familiar with the idea that what we focus our attention on is what we create, Joshua. Tom has mentioned anticipatory systems theory, which I do not fully understand, of course, but it is a physics theory that more or less confirms the idea that what we dream we can create and believe we can create it, we will create.
Most of us here are probably familiar with the Goethe quote (it's not all Goethe. . . ) but 'whatever you can dream you do, do it, begin it now. The quote goes on to say that all matter of coincidences and events begin to stream towards the commitment to creating something with intention. Since following the Better World Island threads, I have been thinking about Goethe's wisdom and thinking that one of the answers to intractable real world problems is that we do not first dream enough detail. . . we rush to action instead of taking the time to build. . . a better world first in our thoughts and then in our world.
I'm poking slowly in SL: my faster DSL goes in on Feb. 25th. . . but I see the work in SL as real work, real needed work.
By Therese Fitzpatrick (117), Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:30:03 PST
Edited: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:33:49 PST
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And fun. . . . a better future had better have some fun in it.
The customer service rep at Qwest asked me conversationally why I was upgrading my DSL and I hesitated, thinking he didn't need to hear that I was upgrading so I can become a gamer but what the heck, I told him. He was fascinated and wanted to know how to find Second Life.
By Anne Marie Bellavance (2207), Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:37:38 PST Edited: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:40:31 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) Therese Fitzpatrick said: Are you familiar with the idea that what we focus our attention on is what we create, Joshua. Tom has mentioned anticipatory systems theory, which I do not fully understand, of course, but it is a physics theory that more or less confirms the idea that what we dream we can create and believe we can create it, we will create. Most of us here are probably familiar with the Goethe quote (it's not all Goethe. . . ) but 'whatever you can dream you do, do it, begin it now. The quote goes on to say that all matter of coincidences and events begin to stream towards the commitment to creating something with intention. Since following the Better World Island threads, I have been thinking about Goethe's wisdom and thinking that one of the answers to intractable real world problems is that we do not first dream enough detail. . . we rush to action instead of taking the time to build. . . a better world first in our thoughts and then in our world. I'm poking slowly in SL: my faster DSL goes in on Feb. 25th. . . but I see the work in SL as real work, real needed work. this is it!! the dreams appear and surface while we are paying attention and listening......creative ideas also appear while we surrender and have fun :D
By Tom Munnecke (1530), Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:04:15 PST Comment feedback score: 0 +|- (net 0 from me) I've continued this discussion in the newly formed Second Life Community, in a thread called Better World Island, Part 3 Please post future comments to that thread.
